Commentator Mike Pesca, host of the podcast The Gist and author of Upon Further Review: The Greatest What-Ifs in Sports History, breaks down analogies politicians use to explain the war against ISIS.

NOEL KING, HOST:

Sports metaphors have a way of working themselves into casual conversation. But interestingly, conversations about the war against ISIS are no exception. President Trump’s declaration that ISIS had been defeated and that he’ll withdraw U.S. troops from Syria led to serious debate. Some of his critics have started using football metaphors. Here’s commentator Mike Pesca.

MIKE PESCA, BYLINE: Last week on CBS’s “Face The Nation,” Democratic Senator Chris Coons spoke in opposition to the presidential decision to withdraw troops from Syria, saying, we’re so close…

(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, “FACE THE NATION”)

CHRIS COONS: We shouldn’t fumble the ball on the five-yard line.

PESCA: Then this week on CNN, Republican Senator Lindsey Graham grabbed the analogy and ran with it – backwards by about five yards.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

LINDSEY GRAHAM: They’re inside the 10-yard line in defeating ISIS, but we’re not there yet.

PESCA: So close, but not as close. Then there was an NBC News story which quoted an unnamed U.S. Special Forces commander saying, we’re on the two-yard line. We could literally fall into the end zone. We’re that close to total victory to wiping out the ISIS caliphate in Syria.

Those words were said nine months ago at the time Rex Tillerson was still the secretary of state and H.R. McMaster was national security adviser. So you could interpret U.S. success as tantalizingly close but actually moving backwards bit by bit, or you could just conclude that it’s less likely that victory is in sight than the analogy is inapt. Analogies work by taking an abstract or even unknowable concept – in this case, the war against an amorphous enemy – and putting it in terms that an audience can understand.

Most Americans could not tell you the results of the Abu Komal offensive, or the command and control structure of ISIS or even if ISIS is Sunni or Shia. But they know when a football team has the ball on the two or five or 10-yard line, they should score a touchdown. Actually, based on statistics from over 30,000 scenarios, the sports analytics firm numberFire determined that the odds of throwing for a touchdown from the 10-yard line are 19 percent and from the five are 31 percent, a running touchdown from the five happens less often than 20 percent of the time, but push it out to Lindsey Graham’s 10-yard line, and you get a rushing touchdown 8 percent of the time.

So even these imagined yard lines, selected to convey the relative ease of the mission, indicate the opposite. And what would a field goal against ISIS be worth? Furthermore, what’s a turnover? That ISIS defeats the U.S. military? And is the U.S. ahead in this game? If so wouldn’t withdrawing, which is to say, running out the clock and ending the game, be the best strategy? I don’t think the senators and military men who purvey these analogies would argue that. They’d likely say comparisons to yard lines aren’t meant to be precise, but evocative. The only problem is they evoke not just a proximity to the goal, literally, but they imply a clock and a rules-based structure that the situation doesn’t warrant.

There is one notable thing about these analogies. They’re all football. If you remember five years ago, then-President Obama referred dismissively to the Jihadi groups which had inherited al-Qaida’s mantle by saying, quote, “the analogy we use around here sometimes, and I think is accurate, is if a jayvee team puts on Lakers uniforms, that doesn’t make them Kobe Bryant.” I don’t know if it’s deliberate or unconscious, but talk of goal lines and fumbles, as opposed to an NBA hall of famer, makes clear the current situation in Syria is a whole other ball game.

KING: Commentator Mike Pesca hosts the Slate podcast “The Gist,” and he wrote “Upon Further Review: The Greatest What-Ifs In Sports History.”

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NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

The first Mascot Hall of Fame opened recently in Whiting, Indiana. NPR’s Leila Fadel speaks with Dave Raymond, the founder and a former mascot himself.

LEILA FADEL, HOST:

Googly-eyed, furry, orange and terrifying – when the Philadelphia Flyers hockey team introduced its new mascot Gritty this year, it became an Internet sensation. Now there’s a new museum in Whiting, Ind. It opened last week, dedicated to honoring the hard-working mascots of college and professional sports teams – a Mascot Hall of Fame.

The man who connects these two things is Dave Raymond. He helped create Gritty and co-founded the museum after a long career as the original Philadelphia Phillies mascot, the Phanatic. And he joins me now.

Thank you for joining us.

FADEL: My pleasure.

DAVE RAYMOND: This has been a project of yours for a long time. You started this as a website in 2005. Now it’s a physical museum. What does this mean to you?

RAYMOND: Well, about five years ago, I got a call from the city of Whiting, Ind., that said, hey. How about we help you build a bricks-and-mortar hall of fame? And I actually thought – (laughter) I thought I was getting pranked by part of my organization, somebody…

FADEL: (Laughter).

RAYMOND: …Calling me from another phone. And so I asked a few questions. And lo and behold, a trip out to Whiting and meeting the mayor started the whole thing. So, you know, to say it’s a dream come true is almost underselling it, you know, for me, personally, and, I think, for the people who really love mascots and have, you know, built their career doing it.

FADEL: You were a mascot for a long time being Phanatic. What are some of the more bizarre moments or your most bizarre memory playing that character?

RAYMOND: There were many. I mean, I performed at a funeral for an 89-year-old Irishman who wanted his wake to be fun. And he was a…

FADEL: Wow.

RAYMOND: …Big Phillies fan. And I – coming into that environment in the beginning in costume, I wasn’t too sure how it would work out. But everybody cheered and slapped the Phanatic on his back in the Supreme Court justices’ private chambers, when Justice Alito was brought on the bench because he was from Trenton. This was at the Supreme Court. Oh, yeah, in their private chambers…

FADEL: Wow.

RAYMOND: …At dinner, so there was a lot of security (laughter).

FADEL: You know, you were one of the creators behind Gritty. Were you expecting the reaction that came…

RAYMOND: (Laughter).

FADEL: ..With Gritty (laughter)?

RAYMOND: Well, I’ll tell you what we were expecting, which is part of my preamble when I sat down with the Flyers for the very first time. And that was, hey, you guys recognize we’re going to get killed – right? – from the standpoint of social media and negative feedback. And sure enough, in the first 24 hours, they received it. But they actually celebrated it (laughter) by sharing, probably, the meanest tweets…

FADEL: Right (laughter).

RAYMOND: …Or the funniest tweets.

FADEL: Do you have a favorite meme or Gritty punchline?

RAYMOND: (Laughter) Well, my favorite was that fake ad for making sure that you’re following safe sex because it said, after all, if you look at Gritty, you see that he is the love child of the abominable snowman and Yukon Cornelius from “Rudolph The Red-Nosed Reindeer” animations. So (laughter) that was pretty creative and very funny.

FADEL: So we’ve talked about mascots being loved and adored, but they can sometimes be controversial and seen as polarizing or possibly prejudiced, depending on what they’re depicting. Can you react to that a little bit?

RAYMOND: So what I would say is it’s all about, you know, trying to do your best to be away from any of those lines, so neutral gender, fantasy character that doesn’t have a representation of an animal. And I’ve been asked this question a number of times throughout my career. And it’s just, like – it’s just – to say it’s counterproductive is not even reaching the level of what a mistake it would be to either honor or create a character that does those things.

FADEL: Dave Raymond, the original Philadelphia Phanatic and creator of the Mascot Hall of Fame. Thank you so much.

RAYMOND: Thanks.

Copyright © 2018 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

For fans of the NFL team, there’ve been some rough years. But finally, this weekend, the Browns go for their first winning record in 11 years.

DAVID GREENE, HOST:

Good morning. I’m David Greene. This song came out in 1998 to celebrate football returning to Cleveland. The Browns were back.

(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, “HERE WE GO AGAIN”)

THE BROWNS ALL-STAR BAND: (Singing) The Browns are going to show you how the game is played. Here we go again.

GREENE: There have been some rough years. But finally this weekend, the Browns will go for their first winning record in 11 years. Now, I need the Browns to win. If they beat Baltimore, my Steelers can make the playoffs. But this isn’t about Pittsburgh. I just want Cleveland to be happy. You’re listening to MORNING EDITION.

Copyright © 2018 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.

It’s been a turbulent year for USA Gymnastics. Noel King talks to former gymnast Trinea Gonczar, about how the organization has dealt with the Larry Nassar abuse scandal, CEO issues and bankruptcy.

NOEL KING, HOST:

It’s been a turbulent year for USA Gymnastics. Back in January, dozens of women testified in a Michigan courtroom. They talked about years of sexual abuse they suffered at the hands of a prominent doctor, Larry Nassar. Trinea Gonczar was one of those women.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

TRINEA GONCZAR: This latest year has traumatized me in ways you cannot even begin to imagine, as I’ve had to realize I was abused for many years of my life. And this, my old friend, is because of you.

KING: Nassar was sentenced to decades in prison and a succession of USA Gymnastics CEOs have since stepped down. Then, this month, the organization filed for bankruptcy. I talked to Trinea Gonczar and I asked her how she thinks USA Gymnastics is handling all of this.

GONCZAR: I mean, I think that they’ve completely crumbled to their feet. I don’t think that they’ve done anything but make one bad decision after another and completely ruin the name of the sport and the organization. It looks worse and worse every time that they make these kind of decisions.

KING: If someone from the organization was to call you and say, Trinea, what should we do? – what would you tell them to do?

GONCZAR: Meet me. Talk to me. Meet with us. Talk to us. Learn about us. You know, I think that there is something to be said about character when you actually just say, we were wrong. How do we make this better?

KING: You’re saying, essentially, an apology would go a long way toward starting to heal this thing.

GONCZAR: Truly, that is all we have ever wanted from anyone, ever.

KING: Despite all of this, the U.S. women’s team did really well at the world championships in Qatar a couple months ago in October. Simone Biles, the top gymnast in the world, keeps on dominating the sport. When you see the U.S. team compete and do well, how do you feel about that?

GONCZAR: So proud. So, so proud. I mean, they’ve gone through the trenches at this stage. And to continue to fight? You know, I think there’s one thing about being a gymnast. Like, we’re trained to face fear. So he picked on, essentially, the worst group of athletes to do something like this, too, because we’re so focused, and we’re so taught how to overcome fear.

And I think USAG and United States Gymnastics being the powerhouse that we are, I think, just, I mean, speaks so loudly of the survivors of this case and the sport. I mean, we’re little, but we’re mighty. But it’s when they go out of competition and that door closes, unfortunately, is when you actually see the heartbreak. And that’s truly the reality for all survivors.

KING: Let’s talk about you as an individual for a moment because I know that you’ve taken on sort of a role in the past year as an advocate, as an activist. But you suffered very greatly as a young woman and as a girl. Your testimony at Larry Nassar’s trial was powerful. It was also agonizing. You talked for about 17 minutes. You said that, for many years, you had defended him. And you said that he was your friend. We’re going to play a little bit of that tape, Trinea.

(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)

GONCZAR: I never doubted you. I never felt scared of you. We loved you like family. We believed you looked out for us and protected us from harm. We literally loved you like family.

KING: What did it mean for you to have the chance to talk directly to him in open court?

GONCZAR: Well, that moment, for me, was 1000 percent between he and I. It was a moment that the world saw that was extremely heartbreaking for me and, to be honest, heartbreaking for him. I never understood that this person could be the same person as the person that did this to all these girls and did so much harm. But now, as I go forward, I can understand, for these other amazing ladies and athletes and women, how this ruined a part of their life because they didn’t know him the same fashion that I knew him.

KING: Your last words to Larry Nassar in court were, goodbye, Larry. May God bless your dark, broken soul. When he went to prison, did you find closure?

GONCZAR: For me, no. For a lot of the other girls, it was a closure. For me, it was an opener. I had really not been able to start the healing process because I was still – I was very pregnant and really trying to understand what was happening. So for me, those words were the beginning of my journey, and it’s been a long one.

KING: Trinea Gonczar, thank you so much for joining us.

GONCZAR: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it so much.

KING: Trinea Gonczar works for Wayne County SAFE. They work with sexual assault survivors in and around Detroit.

Copyright © 2018 NPR. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use and permissions pages at www.npr.org for further information.

NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by Verb8tm, Inc., an NPR contractor, and produced using a proprietary transcription process developed with NPR. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.